1 » As OGGOA wrote earlier today, former Florida Gators quarterback Tim Tebow has adjusted his throwing motion and will put it on display for NFL front offices at Florida’s Pro Day on March 17. In the Paul Finebaum model, Ray Melick of The Birmingham News cautions high school recruits that Tebow’s struggles should have big-time QB prospects shying away from the Gators. “There is a lesson here, however, for young quarterbacks who envision themselves having the chance to play in the NFL one day,” Melick contends. “Look around for a coach who runs an NFL-style offense, and coaches quarterbacks to play with NFL-style mechanics. […] If you were a young quarterback with NFL potential, would you want to play for [head coach Urban] Meyer right now?”
2 » The Orlando Sentinel’s Jeremy Fowler caught up with former Florida defensive end Carlos Dunlap’s father and asked him how his son has been progressing in workouts leading up to the 2010 NFL Scouting Combine. Asked if Dunlap, Jr. was ready to prove everyone wrong, his father replied emphatically. “That’s putting It mildly,” he said. “He knows that all his training has led to this moment, this week. He’ll be ready.” Fowler tells us Dunlap’s goals are to do 25 reps of 225-pounds on the bench press and run a 4.6-second 40-yard dash.
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Ray Melick is either a Finebaum sycophant or Saban apologist like his cohort.
Wow, a sport column writer from Birmingham bashing the Gators system. Maybe we should get a second opinion from Knoxville or the LA Times……..what a moron.
I think ol cool Ray should wait and see what Brantley does the next few years before running his yapper.
Bottom line is the Bama beat riders and hacks like Finebaum realize that the biggest obstacle to near future multiple Nick Saban titles are the Florida Gators. They are obviously playing to their readers fan base and are ones that will benefit greatly by the future success of the Tide, including increased readership, sponserhip, advertising,etc and in Finebaums case, his audience and his “media power” and therefor credibility and influence throughout the southern market.
Ray Melick………………………………………………………..Ray Melick?????????????????????????? That’s what I thought. I understand this guys point to an extent, but he is obviously lost.
First of all Ray, you write for The Birmingham News. Of course your going to say some garbage like this.
Second, lets take a close look at Terrel Pryor. This kid, I think, made a decision that was based purely on the NFL. If your a high school senior you are looking for a college that FITS your needs as a player AND student. Not whether your coach runs a pro style offense and coaches them with “pro-style” mechanics. People act like Urban Meyer sits on his hands all day and does not have competent assistants. Tebow’s mechanics are poor as of right now but they will soon be fine. Melick obviously disregards Tebow’s 2 national titles, a Heisman trophy and countless other records. Ray’s right, dont come to Florida where you could have a career like Tim’s. PSYCHE
To all those Gator fans and others who keep whining about “I want a pro-style offense”: We tried that experiment with the Zooker, and it fell flat on its ass. Did shotgun-draws and all those freaking bubble screens get us anywhere?
Let the media keep spewing all their drivel; Urban Meyer doesn’t give a shit what they have to say. As long as he continues to attract top-notch talent to Gainesville and keeps winning championships, he’ll keep getting the last laugh.
As far as Tim Tebow and his NFL potential goes, the jury’s out. Until he actually sees the field at the pro level and makes plays, it’s not really fair to prematurely pass judgment on him.
After Tebow goes in round 1….
AND we see the John Brantley era…
I think every QB will be dying to play for the Gators…NOT WORRIED AT ALL
To those who just like to criticize, please repeat after me…THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA FOOTBALL PROGRAM IS NOT A FARM TEAM FOR THE NFL!
Alabama’s system has put a lot of recent QBs in the NFL – oh wait that was 30 years ago or more. We have an NFL style QB right now named Brantley so we shall see how he does.
O town it was not Zook’s offense that were the problem it was the d.look it upour offenses were pretty good. Still hating on Zook???? Why? All he did is pour everything he had to UF, I for one can’t hate on that. Sure he fell short but why blame it all on him? What other choices did Foley have at the time he hired Zook?
Greg how about giving C Leak alittle credit, last time I checked he was the starter in 06
I know anything I post here is going to be discounted based solely on my name but oh well…….
1. The knock on Meyer and his QBs is very much a reality and not some Bama-based “Urban” legend. Alex Smith has done nothing to prove Myer’s QBs can succeed and he is the only benchmark so far. Yes, we still have to wait and see with Timmy, but Finebaum has a valid point and you guys are kidding yourselves if you don’t think recruits are seeing it too. Not to mention UF’s NFL track record as a whole being shotty at best, especially regarding QBs. Remember how Danny Wuerffel was the best ever, or Shane Matthews, or Sexy Rexy, or…..you get the point. Mr.2Bits and themGATORS, why do you bash Finebaum for not waiting to see what Tebow does, when you imply that John Brantley is the next Peyton Manning before he has even started a game, all in the same sentence? How about this, if you want everyone to wait for Tebow’s NFL career to begin before bashing him, why don’t you wait until Brantley’s college career starts before touting him as Gainesville’s new messiah?
2. I really don’t understand this one. Dunlap is going to prove everybody wrong at the combine by benching 25 reps and running a 4.6? Last I checked his physical attributes weren’t the concern for Carlos. More of the stupidity, immaturity , DUI a few days before the SECCG type of concerns. Am I wrong here?
Just a few things to think about, or pick apart, or(most likely) just some fuel for you to ignore what I wrote and just bash Georgia. But before I go, Wingtee, you surprised me! If you are indeed a Gator, you are the first one I have ever seen acknowledge the fact that Chris Leak won the’06 National Title with spot help from Tebow, not the other way around. I also thought your take on Zook was a little refreshing as most Gators pretend those are the only years UF ever lost more than 2 games. Well, enjoy and Go Dawgs!
1a. Finebaum didn’t make the point, someone else on that paper’s staff did. And Alex Smith is an example of Meyer being able to take a QB to the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. It is proving that, as a college player, playing in Meyer’s offense will not hurt you in the NFL Draft. Tebow is a very, very unique player; most of Meyer’s quarterbacks aside from him have not been pro-style, Brantley is the exception. You cannot make an indictment on Meyer’s ability to coach up a QB to be a pro until he has a QB with the skillset required to be a “typical” professional – like Brantley.
1b. Using the track record UF QB-NFL argument is pretty weak. Each individual player is unique. Them not succeeding in the NFL is not an indictment on the school or the program, it is on the player.
2. I don’t think you comprehended this correctly. Dunlap’s father said he was ready to prove people wrong who were doubting him. The following sentence was not attributed to his father but rather to the reporter who was recounting what Dunlap said his workout goals were. Just adding information. Everyone that knows Dunlap and his family says this is the first incident he has ever had in his life. In fact, he had already gotten a ride home from a DD but got into the car an hour later bc a girl called and wanted him to come over. Those two things (character, girl) doesn’t make what he did any better, it was still very, very stupid. But if he can rise above it then so be it. I personally don’t draw conclusions on someone for one mistake, even a stupid one like a DUI.
3. Not sure what Gators fans you talk to, but it is pretty obvious that Tebow assisted Leak not the other way around in 2006. Not sure I have heard or met anyone who would claim otherwise. That was Leak’s title; however, Tebow played a very important role in the team all season long.
Glad you took the time to comment here SRQ. Though I disagree with a lot of your basic premises, at least you put together a solid argument.
I assure u srqdawg I am a gator . Never make a mistake about that and kicking the dogs Azz these last 20 years have
ade my life just a little nicer that azz whipping also can I clues your kissing cousin FSU. I hate you both from the bottom of my heart.
So never mistake me from being anything g but a Gator. Have a nice day sir.
Ok, I’m not going to get into some pissing contest with you on your blog but I will respond this time just for some clarity:
1a. Whoever said it, Finebaum or Melick or whoever, the point is still valid. You can say Alex Smith is an example of Meyer showing he can get you picked #1 if you want to, but I doubt you see it that way when not trying to make UF look better. The reality to all of us outside of Gainesville and Utah, is that Smith is a bust. He put up all the numbers, looked great in college, and was suppose to be the next great thing. Sound familiar? It would be the same story for Tebow had Smith not already shown us that it just doesn’t work at the next level. Most of Meyer’s QBs have not been pro-style as you say however. Josh Harris at BG led the team in rushing while Meyer was there and was most certainly not a pro-style QB. We already talked about Smith, and I don’t know who Meyer was coaching at Illinois Sate back in ’89 but I’m sure he doesn’t prove your argument correct here. Those are the only QBs he coached, since other than that he was a WR, TE, or defensive coach. I’m sure that was just an honest mistake on your part though.
1b. I understand everyone is different but it is a little odd that all of these QBs perform so well in Gainesville, but can’t do so in various places around the NFL. I guess your argument here is as good as any but, just be sure you remember it when bashing other programs, as npgator has forgotten this in his post bashing Bama for their lack of NFL QBs.
2. I comprehend this just fine. Dunlap’s Dad said he was ready to prove everyone wrong without further elaboration and then talks about the 40 and bench press numbers. I also notice you omit that UF staffers and NFL scouts have voiced concerns over the years that Carlos may not always give 100% and has had “other character issues.” The way Jeremy and you present it leads me to believe that either the Dunlap’s are full of it, just saying what they are expected to or that Carlos and his father expect the “character” things not to matter as long as he gets to 25 and 4.6…… I also don’t draw conclusions because of 1 mistake, but its really not 1 mistake that led to this.
3. You say this now, but you and I both know that the media, UF, and its fans have done everything possible to make us all forget about Leak with the constant talk of Tebow and his 2 National Titles (remember all that 3 out of 4 talk early last year). Sorry, I’m not buying what you’re selling here. Every Florida fan around claims that title as Tebow’s and even called for Leak to be benched during that championship year. The title belongs to the defense if anyone, a title that Tebow would have been watching from home had the D not won a few games with blocked or flat-out missed FGs/XPs (but that’s football).
Wingtee, huh?????
Whose arguing? You prefaced your first post implying you wanted conversation and then began your second one implying that I am trying to dupe you into getting mad? I was just responding to you, sir.
1a. The point is most certainly not valid. The 49ers don’t seem to consider Smith a bust as, from what I’m hearing, he is going to get the chance to start next year after being injured. I am not sure what you are attributing to a “mistake” on my part. I said nothing even remotely incorrect nor did you say anything to prove me wrong in 1a. In fact, you proved my point that Meyer has not had a pro-style QB to work with where someone can say he cannot prepare him for the NFL. So thank you for that. Meyer has succeeded with what he has had, and saying he cannot turn Brantley or another pro-style QB into an NFL QB is simply hogwash because the opportunity has not been there to do so.
1b. You are talking to me like we have been commenting back-and-forth for years. I don’t bash programs on here or anywhere. Then again, I do reserve some distaste for Lane Kiffin – but that’s a person, not a program.
2. No, see, you’re not comprehending it. Dunlap’s father did not mention the bench press/40 time in the same breath as his previous comment. He was, however, explaining some of his son’s specific goals at the combine. Not saying those goals would prove the scouts wrong, just what he was working toward achieving. Separate thoughts.
2b. I didn’t “omit” the thoughts of UF coaches or NFL scouts because I was not giving my opinion of his ability to succeed at the next level. I was simply responding to your misunderstanding of the posted article. Can’t “omit” something that I am not asked to evaluate or that I am not discussing. This is what opposing fans often do on individual team blogs…begin an argument one way, lose it and then counter by making points that were not originally contested in the first place. The perceived character issues and his on-field issues are completely separate. The character issues I do not believe are there; however, he does have on-field issues such as his inconsistency that he must fix. Again, this was not the topic of conversation.
3. “You say this now” implies that I had not said so previously – something you know nothing about and is factually incorrect. Tebow did indeed win two national titles. He was an important part of the 2006 team. And he would have won three of four should the Gators have finished their mission this season. That does not change the fact that Leak was the starting QB and offensive leader of the 2006 team. No one disputes that. Saying Tebow won two titles is a fact. Disputing it is ridiculous. That’s like saying the No. 4 WR didn’t win a title just because he got far less touches than the No. 1 WR. Not trying to “sell” anything…but you are…and you’re failing.
I honestly don’t have the time to go back-and-forth with you on this. Let’s just face facts – you have an inherit bias because you are a Georgia fan and Florida fans have their own bias for, well, being Florida fans. A lot of what you said is factually incorrect; you are also making generalities because people like to group “Gators fans” together as one based on the few trolls that populate their own blogs and message boards. Have fun.
Wingtee, it’s bad enough your second post reeks of smack but don’t blow that Zook-apologist nonsense in my face. Had Jeremy Foley performed his due diligence more thoroughly and made more of an effort to find the right fit for the head coaching vacancy after Spurrier resigned, we wouldn’t have experienced a dropoff as we did under Zook. With the Zooker the cons greatly outweighed the pros – and don’t try to deny that. Zook isan idiot and a loser – and if you can’t – or refuse – to seethat, then you were in a stupor from 2002-2004.
It’s so easy for you, “SRQDawgs”, your fellow Zook apologists and rivals/Gator-haters/others of your same ilk to defend the Zooker, but the bottom line is that (1) he was NOT Florida material (in case some of you forgot, Spurrier was forced to demote Zook for sub-par job performance during the mid-90’s when he was on his staff) and (2) he’s hardly making waves up at Illinois; in fact, he’ll be awfully damn lucky to have a job after the 2010 season should the Illini finish below .500 once again.
And Dawgs, you’re full of shit. It’s so easy for you to bash Urban Meyer and the Gator football program, but don’t even try and profess that you know more about Gator football than those of who follow the program know ourselves. Is everything to peachy-keen up there in Athens that you can cast stones down Gainesville’s way?
Actually,
1. You said all of Meyer’s QBs were pro-style except Tebow. Maybe it was a typo, but don’t try to belittle me for your mistakes.
2. As far as Dunlap, he said he is ready to prove them wrong but the only specifics are physical in nature. Therefore, the public has to assume he is either keeping his big plan to disprove the character issues a secret, the reporters are keeping it a secret, or he is full of BS and the only thing they care about is the physical numbers. I’ll take the third choice, you can go with whichever one you want.
2b. You did omit things in your response to me when you said the DUI was the only thing Dunlap has ever done wrong when that is not the case. I am addressing both your post and your response as well as the response of others. Don’t lump me into your “opposing fans are always wrong” category when that is not the case. More likely its you that fits into the “home-town fans excuse everything their players do while bashing others for the same thing” category. If Dunlap has to prove people wrong about him that encompasses the DUI, his questioned intelligence, his questioned work ethic, etc. How does this not all fit together for you?
3. “He would have won three of four should the Gators have finished their mission this season” Haha. Well, here’s some news for you…..everyone on every team WOULD HAVE won 4 out of 4 had they finished their mission. You may not be disputing Leak’s importance but plenty of your co-Gators have and still do. You guys overemphasize Tebow’s importance and under-emphasize Leak’s, the defense, and everything else that goes into a championship. Remember, Tebow’s best year at UF was UF’s worst year with Tebow….that is no coincidence.
1. I fudged that, yeah. What I meant to say was what I said in my reply…that he has not had a true pro-style QB UNTIL Brantley. I was not belittling you. You did prove my point, however. You were condemning Meyer for something he has not had the opportunity to prove.
2. Dunlap didn’t say anything. His father was interviewed. The reporter separated the comments quite well. You are choosing to nit-pick to try to make some absurd point that doesn’t exist.
2b. You claimed I omitted discussing his abilities on the field when I was not discussing that topic. I cannot omit something about one topic when I am talking about a different one. By saying he had a clean record aside from the DUI, I was talking about his CHARACTER. And what else has Dunlap done wrong besides the DUI that you are claiming? You are lumping in (a) character and (b) on-field ability and issues together when that was NOT the initial conversation and there is absolutely no reason to do so. The DUI issue and his perceived issues on the field are SEPARATE. You obviously show a major reading comprehension problem as nowhere did I say anything like “opposing fans are always wrong.” What I DID say, which you are proving is: “opposing fans begin an argument one way, lose it and then counter by making points that were not originally contested in the first place.” As far as I go, I am not here commenting as a fan. But I suppose when someone comes on and completely debunks everything you say, that is your only resource – to make stuff up.
3. Not sure why you’re laughing at that comment, considering I was referring to your statement about the “three out of four talk from last year.” Again, have never seen anyone under-emphasize Leak or the defense in 2006 and prop Tebow up as the reason that team one. Either you are making that up or you are just dealing with UF fans who are trying to rile you up on some other site.
Oh, and another one for you, “Wingtee” – I challenge you to try and explain how Zook was beneficial to his career.
You and your fellow Zookites will naturally disagree with me, but as far as I see it Zook did nothing to benefit or enhance Leak’s career at all; in fact, if it wasn’t for Urban Meyer we probably wouldn’t even see Chris on a CFL roster as we do right now. granted he’s only a backup, but the best thing that could have happened to him at UF was Meyer coming along and making the best out of his talent. Zook had no clue how to do that, but Meyer made the best out of Leaks’ skillset and fashioned a hybrid form of the spread offense around his particular skillset. Once Tim Tebow arrived, Meyer used a two-QB system to make the best use out of each of their strangths just as Spurrier had done with Johnson/Brindise and Palmer/Grossman. These turned out to be winning formulas for our offenses during those years, but can you honestly tell me that Zook had the ingenuity to try and come up with the same concept?
You and I both know the answer to that question is NO.
Back on topic, the bottom line is that the jury’s still out on Tim Tebow and his potential to succeed at the next level; until we actually see him taking snaps and making plays out there operating an NFL offense it’s unfair to pass judgment on him. Nor is it fair to accuse Coach Meyer of failing to prepare him for the next level when his priorities lie with his team as a whole – his main priority is to have the Gators ready to play on gameday, win games and ultimately win championships. His emphasis is on the TEAM as a whole; NO single player in his team is entitled to special treatment, no matter who they are. Unlike the NFL, college football is not a player’s league.
I am one who thinks it woud have only helped Tebow to quicken his release & improve his mechanics while in college….but do I think it will hurt our recruiting futre QB’s….no way…you think because Ben R. is doing so well in the NFL some top recruit is going to go to Miami of Ohio or Purdue because of Brees? And who thinks if Eli & Peyton would have went to other schools they would not have still been successful NFL QB’s….and who remembers Philip Rivers being critisized for his weird delivery which was re-vamped for the draft and still leaves a lot to be desired…but is that slowing him down…and that guy is a punk!!!
Drew, you’re right. UF football has reached a level of success in that it can sell itself to recruits; they don’t need any exorbitant marketing or gimmicks to attract the top talent to commit to the program. Try as they might, even the sports media can’t sabotage UF’S recruiting campaign year after year. As long as Urban Meyer can keep maintaining the current level of success of our football program and winning championships, we’ll keep knocking our rivals dead in that aspect and the top high schoolers who want to keep that tradition alive will come to Gainesville.
That was Chris Leak’s title for sure…Did Tim have his hand in it? Of course. Any Gator fan who watched that year knows it was Chris Leak and the D that won it for us. Tebow was the supplement.
O town , is that some kind of name calling strategy you are using ? Calling me a Zookite? What is a freaking Zookite? Supporting him and the Gators thru tough years … Well I am frigging guilty. He worked his tail off for us, it didn’t work so we adjusted and everything is ok now.
I hope you don’t stand up and sing we are the boys after the fourth quarter because if you do you are a hypocrit.
Signed the Zookite
I agree Greg and he does not get the credit deserved here. I think he was recruited by Ron Zook. Oh there I go again acting like a Zookite and an apologist.
By the way Adam this is an awesome site. Don’t leave for work until I have read your stuff.
“Wingtee”, as a matter of fact I do sing “We are the Boys”, and I’m just as loyal of a Gator fan as you and anyone else – and as I’ve said before, don’t throw that Zook-apologist crap in my face. He was way in over his head and outside of bringing in some talent didn’t do SQUAT for the football program. There are many more Gator fans who share the same opinion of Zook that I do – and whether you like it or not, that’s our privilege. Just because we asked for change after three years of mediocrity and wanted him out doesn’t make us “hypocrites” (notice the correct spelling); in fact, if we didn’t care as deeply about Florida football as we do, we would have remained silent and looked the other way. We cared enough not to let the program fall into further decline, and spoke our peace. Enough was enough.
And you’re offended that I called you a “Zookite”? If the shoe fits, WEAR IT.
SRQDawgs15 = same old cane troll in drag. By and large, UGA fans have respect for Florida. The vitriol may flow when the beer is going down but that’s just what rivalries are all about.
When I talk to intelligent and measured UGA fans I always get the same response. And that is that UF is just plain better. Better players and better coaching. When you own a team for two decades that happens. I’ve never seen Dawgs run this absurd NFL smack even with the Stafford pick. UGA has much bigger problems and they know it. Archaic cane fans latch on to this topic because it’s all they have at this point. Name any program that has been in a freefall for the last two decades like UM has.
All this “doesn’t prepare guys for the NFL” gibberish is the standard UM party line. It’s ironic that “quarterback U” has been very bad for a very long time at QB. Surprised you took the bait Adam.
Didn’t take any “bait.” Thought he was here for a legitimate conversation. Oh well. Big game to cover right now.
What a moron. NFL success is about how good the guy is not where he went to college. Heath Schuler and Peyton Manning both came out of the fat man’s offense as first-rounders (Schuler even managed a win against the Gators) yet Manning is an NFL stud while Schuler became . . . well, Matthews/Weurffel/Grossman/Leak (and Jesse Palmer, pre-reality show). Same holds true for Tee Martin, Ainge and all those other UT guys. Check out Marino at Pitt, Elway at Stanford (Plunkett had a different coach), Montana at ND (ditto Theisman), Kelly at Miami, Farve at Southern Miss, etc. None of those coaches pumped out repeat hall of famers, and for every “pro-style” school there’s a Southern Northern Louisiana (wherever it was Bradshaw went) or that other Miami (kid named Roethlisberger). In fact, except for that Notre Dame kid I don’t think anybody with a shot at this year’s first round is from the same school as a current starter. So yeah kids, sign on with one of those “pro-style” programs and improve your NFL chances.
Also, doesn’t most everybody have to change their game when they get to the NFL? Seems to me the difference between an Elway and a Wuerffel or Zeier or Leak isn’t whether they come out of college with a five-step drop, it’s things you can’t teach like intellect, instinct, size or arm strength. From what I’ve heard Tebow has that stuff in spades (think Wuerffel with size, a gun and an attitude – how cool would that be). People like Dungy and Parcells say they’d take Tebow in the first round. So, Dungy/Parcells versus what’shisname in Birmingham . . . if you’re a QB recruit, who do you listen to?
Finally, why is someone in Birmingham talking quarterbacks anyway? The Tide hasn’t had a great QB since the mid-60s, when they threw maybe 10 times a game, and I doubt those guys would do much in today’s NFL. Their last great one was Stabler, best known for (i) saving clock against UT by throwing out of bounds on fourth down, (ii) running (running!!) for a long TD in some big game, and (iii) getting kicked off the team for drinking. The best modern-day QBs from Alabama were Pat Sullivan and Jason Campbell, and they played at Auburn (and yeah, Brodie Croyle could end up pretty good, but we’ll have to wait and see about that).
So tell me again, why are we talking about this bozo in Birmingham?
Good post Bill…the biggest crap shoot in the NFL draft is QB….I have heard stats….I think it’s like 25% of first rounders even stay in the league more than a few years
O town what Zook supposed to do ? Turn down the freaking job? also please don’t take credit for getting zoom fired. You act like you have a say in any decisions that go on at UF. If you think you have anyy say so where was your input when hiring him?
One more question OT tell me who you would have hired instead since your so smart a d have the ability of an English teacher to correct spelling.
O
Wingtee I don’t think there are many Zook defenders left in Gator Nation…he did have zero business as our head coach and things are now falling apart for him at Illinois
Never said he was a great coach. All I am trying to say is that he tried. I am sure he now recognizes that he is not cut out for being a HeadCoach.
Please understand there was not a lot of choices at the time. The choices that were at there declined the job. You had to make a choice because the recruiting clAss was falling apart.
Iam done with this subject
I’m told Ryan Leaf played in a pro-style system, with a good release and an awesome five-step drop. I say we hire his old coach and to heck with this spread stuff.